Closer? We don’t need no stinkin’ closer… or do we?

So there has been a LOT of discussion in the blogosphere since Gardy announced that they would be pursuing a “closer by committee” approach last weekend.  Turns out that even friends don’t always agree what this means or whether it works.  Here’s a slice of the debate just in case you hadn’t already filled up on dinner.

JIMCRIKKET:

In football, when a coach says he has two quarterbacks, what he’s really saying is that he doesn’t have one. I think Ron Gardenhire is saying the same thing when he says he’ll open the season with “Closer by Committee”.

Yes, the Twins have some good arms in their bullpen to open the season. I realize they’ve historically been able to identify and develop new closers. But this feels different.

The Twins are not a sub-.500 team just looking for someone to close games in the relatively unlikely event that they have a lead in the 9th inning like they were when Rick Aguilera was given the job. Nor are they a team simply trying to contend in their division like they were when Eddie Guardado succeeded LaTroy Hawkins. 

This is supposed to be “the season” for the Minnesota Twins. This is when they do more than contend. This is the year they’re geared up to fight with the big boys.  This is more akin to 2004 when they handed the job to newly acquired Joe Nathan.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the guys in the Twins’ bullpen. But I don’t see anyone there who I want to see coming in to pitch the 9th inning of a close game. We could argue whether 9th innings are always the critical inning and whether your best shut-em-down bullpen arm should occasionally be used in the 7th or 8th instead of the ninth. But that’s not the point. Right now, I don’t see a guy on this staff I’d feel comfortable going to regularly in any such situation, regardless of the inning.

Actually, that’s not completely true. Guys like Guerrier, Neshek, Rauch, Mijares and Crain have all had considerable success in those situations. But this is where the closer is different. To be a successful set-up pitcher, you need command of more than one pitch and the ability to miss bats with those pitches. This pen has a few of those guys.

But a closer needs more. He needs an out-pitch… something he can throw time after time and know (not just think) he’ll be successful with, no matter how many times that hitter has seen that pitch. “Knowing”… or believing… he’ll be successful every time he enters the game is a mental thing. It’s a discipline. It’s more than having talent. It requires more than confidence. It requires arrogance.

Show me the guy in this bullpen with (a) reliable command of more than one pitch, (b) the demonstrated ability over the past  couple of years to miss bats with those pitches, (c) a legitimate out-pitch, and (d) the mental toughness… the ego… the arrogance to not only be a closer but THE closer on a team who’s goal is not simply to contend for their Division, but to go the distance. Show me the guy you believe is a closer you want to take you to the World Series… and trust to do his job when you get there.

“Closer by Committee” is just Gardy’s way of telling Bill Smith, “I don’t have a closer.”

I believe he’s right.

CAPITALBABS:

First, when Gardy says he’s going to have a “closer by committee” I think that simply means he knows he’ll use more than one person and he doesn’t want to name names…  I don’t think he gets really caught up in definitions. 

Do I think we need a closer?  Absolutely.  Does Gardy?  well, I never get that elusive opportunity to grill him over a beer at the bar but I’m going to make some guesses based on his pitcher selection in the past.  Yes, he likes having a closer.  He’ll work with what he’s got and hope like hell that someone steps up to the plate.  Do we, as Twins fans, need to have that 9th inning guy to turn games over to – especially ones that are ‘on the line’??  No, we thrive on the angst of a nailbiter anyway…  Do the rest of the pitchers on the team?  Yeah, I kind of think they do.  It’s not that they won’t all do their best regardless, but I think they’ll do BETTER.

Here’s where it gets a little… complicated.

Even if Bert is right and the pitcher is the best athelete on the field, pitching is first and foremost a mental exercise.  And a guy with a good arm doesn’t dream of becoming a great closing pitcher.  He likely dreams of being that great starter – who, no doubt, pitches a complete game with no one else’s help – and starts developing his fastball…  What eventually happens though is that, for whatever reason, his great arm isn’t suited to long outtings every 4th or 5th day.  He becomes a relief pitcher.  And no, it’s not because of a much vaunted ‘out pitch’- or the lack thereof.

Yes, the mental belief that you can throw what you want to throw when you want to throw it is important.  It is if you’re a starter too.  Fact is, I would be willing to bet (whatever limited funds I have available) that you aren’t going to last long with a single team in MLB in ANY pitching role if you don’t believe that – even if it isn’t always true.  So it takes a LOT more than belief to be a 1st rate closer.  So, in a way, JC is right.  What sets a closer apart from his fellow members of the bullpen is BALLS. 

Funny thing about these little families of men whose individual success depends on the skills and abilities of their brothers.  In their heart of hearts, they know whether or not they trust or have the trust of the others.

Nathan became the preeminent late inning guy that he is because of the sheer force of will that drives his intense mound personality.  I can guarantee that he doesn’t have that same intensity 24/7 – who could?  But he goes out to the mound with fire because he believes in himself and because the others believe in him too.

So, out of the group of really excellent pitchers the Twins have now, who has shown that same fire?  Well, no one.  Why?  BECAUSE THEY HAD JOE NATHAN!

There is no reason to expect a change in behavior until you change the status quo and I have to tell you that it really does change the mentality of each and every one of those guys that he isn’t there with them now.

I’m just waiting to see who says, “you know what, I CAN do this.  I know my stuff and I can get any hitter out there if you want me to.  Let me do it.”  And the guy who says it so convincingly that the others BELIEVE him?  THAT’s your closer. 

I’m starting to see a bit of that attitude here and there already.  :)  Gardy is just waiting to see who he really believes.

Or at least that is what this armchair psychologist/pitching fanatic sees when she’s watching baseball.  Maybe she should drink more.

Feel free to serve up your favorite opinion to the buffet and share in the feasting.

GameChat – (ST) Split Squad day, 12:05 pm ESPN & am1500

Nothing like trying to make things really complicated – but half the team will be taking on the Yankees on ESPN and the other half will be dealing with the Rays on am1500 radio.  Not sure which I’ll be tracking at any given moment…

Minnesota @ NY Yankees
Span, CF   Jeter, SS
Hudson, O, 2B   Thames, DH
Hardy, SS   Posada, C
Kubel, DH   Rodriguez, A, 3B
Young, D, LF   Swisher, RF
Harris, B, 3B   Granderson, CF
Peterson, Br, 1B   Gardner, LF
Portes, RF   Pena, R, 2B
Butera, C   Miranda, 1B
  Duensing, P     Hughes, P, P

 

highlights from the Yankees game:  you’ve probably heard by now but in the first AB of the game, Denard Span managed to foul a ball off the chest of his mother sitting in the stands.  The odds of that can only be calculated by a serious stats person – not me.  Glad to hear that she’s ok and even sent him back to CF after seeing the med folk and going back to her seat by the dugout.  The other highlight (other than kicking Yankee butt) is Duensing had a great start against some SERIOUS hitters.  Good to see he has that kind of presence in case we have an injury in the starting ro – something that seems inevitable with our history.  And Neshek had another STELLAR outting.  Good to see him out there smiling on the mound and confident.

  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
Minnesota 2 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 4 8 0
NY Yankees 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 6 1

 

or

Tampa Bay @ Minnesota
Rodriguez, S, 2B   Casilla, A, SS
Brignac, R, SS   Punto, 3B
Zobrist, CF   Mauer, C
Longoria, 3B   Morneau, 1B
Pena, C, 1B   Cuddyer, CF
Aybar, W, DH   Thome, DH
Kapler, RF   Jones, Jac, RF
Ashley, C   Dinkelman, LF
Johnson, E, LF   Singleton, 2B
  Davis, W, P     Baker, S, P

 

ok, this game kind of sucked.  Highlights are hard to find especially considering how deep into the minor league roster we went by the end of the game.  Scooter definitely didn’t have a good game and didn’t even finish the third inning.  So the challenge of watching ESPN on mute while listening to the radio might not have been worth it.  At least I really don’t worry about a pitcher of Baker’s caliber – a bad outting is simply that.  He’ll be back to his usual self for the next one, I’m sure!

 

  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
Tampa Bay 2 2 4 0 0 0 0 1 1 10 19 0
Minnesota 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 6 2

remember that the boxscore links you to more game details!