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	<title>Comments on: Retaliation: Manning Up or Sophomoric Silliness?</title>
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		<title>By: CapitalBabs</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/08/26/retaliation-manning-up-or-sophomoric-silliness/#comment-1486</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalBabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=3526#comment-1486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[a) it&#039;s somewhat short-sighted to believe that the only way teams retaliate is with a plunking.  Recent events with our own team proves that things happen on the bases and at home plate that don&#039;t involve the pitcher.  And I think most of those alternatives are even more dangers.

b) these guys are a team and aren&#039;t robots so they are going to react.  I don&#039;t believe in meaningless violence - and I don&#039;t believe in STARTING anything.  I also don&#039;t believe we should just take the bait, hook, line &amp; sinker, if another team tries to egg us on.  I think there is a point where it&#039;s pushed way too far and our management does a very good job of being grownups for the most part.  Gardy&#039;s &quot;showtime&quot; is used to advantage almost always - he goes out there and does whatever &#039;expressing&#039; is necessary so the guys don&#039;t feel the need to take matters into their own hands.

c) there is a lot to be said for the unwritten rules including that there is an excepted formula and a way to do it that all players understand.  When they break those unwritten rules, there are consequences that go way beyond what we as fans see or understand.  And Shannon, yes, I am pretty sure that book is one KL is reading to do a review here sometime.  It sounds really interesting!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a) it&#8217;s somewhat short-sighted to believe that the only way teams retaliate is with a plunking.  Recent events with our own team proves that things happen on the bases and at home plate that don&#8217;t involve the pitcher.  And I think most of those alternatives are even more dangers.</p>
<p>b) these guys are a team and aren&#8217;t robots so they are going to react.  I don&#8217;t believe in meaningless violence &#8211; and I don&#8217;t believe in STARTING anything.  I also don&#8217;t believe we should just take the bait, hook, line &#038; sinker, if another team tries to egg us on.  I think there is a point where it&#8217;s pushed way too far and our management does a very good job of being grownups for the most part.  Gardy&#8217;s &#8220;showtime&#8221; is used to advantage almost always &#8211; he goes out there and does whatever &#8216;expressing&#8217; is necessary so the guys don&#8217;t feel the need to take matters into their own hands.</p>
<p>c) there is a lot to be said for the unwritten rules including that there is an excepted formula and a way to do it that all players understand.  When they break those unwritten rules, there are consequences that go way beyond what we as fans see or understand.  And Shannon, yes, I am pretty sure that book is one KL is reading to do a review here sometime.  It sounds really interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea S</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/08/26/retaliation-manning-up-or-sophomoric-silliness/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=3526#comment-1484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m generally in the &quot;old school&quot; camp. Mostly because I feel this is the way baseball is set up to operate. Although going for someone&#039;s head should never be allowed. It&#039;s so amazingly dangerous.

But if we don&#039;t retaliate when we feel our guys are being targeted, other teams are going to continue to push the issue because they think they can. Warnings from umps are generally a.) ineffective and b.) temporary. After that game or series, the ump is different and no longer watching for specific things. And there are many ways the opposing team can find to get to our guys. So I think it&#039;s important that we protect our players. We don&#039;t need to be harmful about it, aiming for the head or knees should never be okay, but we do need to make sure that other teams don&#039;t run roughshod over our guys.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m generally in the &#8220;old school&#8221; camp. Mostly because I feel this is the way baseball is set up to operate. Although going for someone&#8217;s head should never be allowed. It&#8217;s so amazingly dangerous.</p>
<p>But if we don&#8217;t retaliate when we feel our guys are being targeted, other teams are going to continue to push the issue because they think they can. Warnings from umps are generally a.) ineffective and b.) temporary. After that game or series, the ump is different and no longer watching for specific things. And there are many ways the opposing team can find to get to our guys. So I think it&#8217;s important that we protect our players. We don&#8217;t need to be harmful about it, aiming for the head or knees should never be okay, but we do need to make sure that other teams don&#8217;t run roughshod over our guys.</p>
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		<title>By: shannon</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/08/26/retaliation-manning-up-or-sophomoric-silliness/#comment-1467</link>
		<dc:creator>shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 04:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=3526#comment-1467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I highly recommend reading &quot;The Baseball Codes—Beanballs, Sign Stealing, &amp; Bench-Clearing Brawls: The Unwritten Rules of America&#039;s Pastime&quot; by Jason Turbow. It discusses this very subject. The Code does permit intentionally hitting a batter as retaliation for a violation of the unwritten rules, and strictly forbids &quot;headhunting,&quot; i.e. aiming for the hitter&#039;s head.

If the Twins think that Thome was intentionally hit by a pitch, they can certainly turn around and try to hit someone like Vladimir Guerrero or Josh Hamilton. Likewise, Matt Thornton could try and send a pitch into Delmon Young&#039;s left kidney as retaliation for him plowing into AJ Pierzynski last week.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I highly recommend reading &#8220;The Baseball Codes—Beanballs, Sign Stealing, &amp; Bench-Clearing Brawls: The Unwritten Rules of America&#8217;s Pastime&#8221; by Jason Turbow. It discusses this very subject. The Code does permit intentionally hitting a batter as retaliation for a violation of the unwritten rules, and strictly forbids &#8220;headhunting,&#8221; i.e. aiming for the hitter&#8217;s head.</p>
<p>If the Twins think that Thome was intentionally hit by a pitch, they can certainly turn around and try to hit someone like Vladimir Guerrero or Josh Hamilton. Likewise, Matt Thornton could try and send a pitch into Delmon Young&#8217;s left kidney as retaliation for him plowing into AJ Pierzynski last week.</p>
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		<title>By: dewluca</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/08/26/retaliation-manning-up-or-sophomoric-silliness/#comment-1466</link>
		<dc:creator>dewluca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=3526#comment-1466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m generally in the pacifist camp (no surprise), but I have fewer problems with the occasional &quot;plunk on the butt&quot; than I do with the current system of warnings where the ump takes away the inside pitch for the rest of the game.  

Most of the scariest HBP that I&#039;ve seen (Sosa hit in the head, various other folks hit in the head) have seemed to be accidents by pitchers who were having trouble finding the strike zone before it happened . . . .  I&#039;d like to believe no one would intentionally aim at a guy&#039;s head, but maybe I&#039;m being naive??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m generally in the pacifist camp (no surprise), but I have fewer problems with the occasional &#8220;plunk on the butt&#8221; than I do with the current system of warnings where the ump takes away the inside pitch for the rest of the game.  </p>
<p>Most of the scariest HBP that I&#8217;ve seen (Sosa hit in the head, various other folks hit in the head) have seemed to be accidents by pitchers who were having trouble finding the strike zone before it happened . . . .  I&#8217;d like to believe no one would intentionally aim at a guy&#8217;s head, but maybe I&#8217;m being naive??</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Crikket</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/08/26/retaliation-manning-up-or-sophomoric-silliness/#comment-1465</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Crikket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=3526#comment-1465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a fair perspective, millie, and thanks for sharing it. If, as many believe, Feliz threw intentionally at Thome for no better reason than to get to Tolbert, then I&#039;m with you 100%. It was dangerous and wrong.

But now, let&#039;s assume that&#039;s exactly what Feliz did. If the Twins take the high road and let it go without any form of retaliation, then what disincentive is there for Feliz to decide to do the exact same thing if a similar situation comes up tonight?

If the Twins don&#039;t send a message that intentionally throwing at Jim Thome will not be tolerated and, as a result, he gets thrown at AGAIN and this time the damage done is more serious... then was the Twins&#039; pacifism in part responsible for that injury?

I just don&#039;t think it&#039;s as simple as, &quot;it&#039;s never OK.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a fair perspective, millie, and thanks for sharing it. If, as many believe, Feliz threw intentionally at Thome for no better reason than to get to Tolbert, then I&#8217;m with you 100%. It was dangerous and wrong.</p>
<p>But now, let&#8217;s assume that&#8217;s exactly what Feliz did. If the Twins take the high road and let it go without any form of retaliation, then what disincentive is there for Feliz to decide to do the exact same thing if a similar situation comes up tonight?</p>
<p>If the Twins don&#8217;t send a message that intentionally throwing at Jim Thome will not be tolerated and, as a result, he gets thrown at AGAIN and this time the damage done is more serious&#8230; then was the Twins&#8217; pacifism in part responsible for that injury?</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as simple as, &#8220;it&#8217;s never OK.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: millie</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/08/26/retaliation-manning-up-or-sophomoric-silliness/#comment-1464</link>
		<dc:creator>millie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=3526#comment-1464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s OK as long as you don&#039;t aim for the head??  I don&#039;t buy it.   Serious injuries can occur elsewhere on the body as well.  Are we supposed to believe that pitchers have such pinpoint control that they can zero in on a &quot;safe&quot; area to plunk?  A couple of inches lower, that pitch to Thome could have broken his kneecap.      
  It&#039;s not a &quot;guy thing&quot; or a &quot;generational thing&quot;.  It&#039;s an ill-advised, immature, wrong thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s OK as long as you don&#8217;t aim for the head??  I don&#8217;t buy it.   Serious injuries can occur elsewhere on the body as well.  Are we supposed to believe that pitchers have such pinpoint control that they can zero in on a &#8220;safe&#8221; area to plunk?  A couple of inches lower, that pitch to Thome could have broken his kneecap.<br />
  It&#8217;s not a &#8220;guy thing&#8221; or a &#8220;generational thing&#8221;.  It&#8217;s an ill-advised, immature, wrong thing.</p>
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