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	<title>Comments on: To &#8216;Stache Or Not To &#8216;Stache: The Carl Pavano Issue</title>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2587</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think part of the reason the &#039;Pavano is gone&#039; thing floats around with Twins fan is because for my entire lifetime of Twins fandom (since 1987!) its pretty much the way the Twins do things. Bring in a guy cheap, let him go when he gets expensive no matter how good he is. Its just bred into us, I think]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think part of the reason the &#8216;Pavano is gone&#8217; thing floats around with Twins fan is because for my entire lifetime of Twins fandom (since 1987!) its pretty much the way the Twins do things. Bring in a guy cheap, let him go when he gets expensive no matter how good he is. Its just bred into us, I think</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Crikket</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2568</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Crikket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t believe I said the Royals are currently &quot;anxious&quot; to deal Greinke. They certainly aren&#039;t. What I said is that, perhaps when they&#039;re eliminated in 2011, they will become more anxious to unload that contract. It doesn&#039;t matter how many veterans they&#039;ve unloaded, when you have no more revenue than what the Royals do, paying one player $13.5 million in 2011 and again in 2012 is a lot of money (especially for a player that only plays every 5th game and thus doesn&#039;t account for significant daily ticket sales). The Royals certainly have no plans on seriously contending in that time. The odds of Greinke still being a Royal when the 2012 season rolls around are very small. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a matter of whether he&#039;ll be traded, but when... and to whom.

I also think the whole &quot;trading within your division&quot; thing is less of an issue than most people think. All things being equal, you might prefer not to trade within your division, but the idea is to strengthen your team. The Twins are contenders now and could use a top starting pitcher. They can&#039;t worry about whether some kids they trade to KC might actually improve the Royals. They just have to be concerned about whether trading those players away weakens themselves, now and/or in the future, more than adding Greinke improves them. Likewise, if the Royals can get the kind of talent they think they need to be able to contend in the division sooner by trading an expensive pitcher they can&#039;t afford right now to a division rival, they&#039;d do it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe I said the Royals are currently &#8220;anxious&#8221; to deal Greinke. They certainly aren&#8217;t. What I said is that, perhaps when they&#8217;re eliminated in 2011, they will become more anxious to unload that contract. It doesn&#8217;t matter how many veterans they&#8217;ve unloaded, when you have no more revenue than what the Royals do, paying one player $13.5 million in 2011 and again in 2012 is a lot of money (especially for a player that only plays every 5th game and thus doesn&#8217;t account for significant daily ticket sales). The Royals certainly have no plans on seriously contending in that time. The odds of Greinke still being a Royal when the 2012 season rolls around are very small. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a matter of whether he&#8217;ll be traded, but when&#8230; and to whom.</p>
<p>I also think the whole &#8220;trading within your division&#8221; thing is less of an issue than most people think. All things being equal, you might prefer not to trade within your division, but the idea is to strengthen your team. The Twins are contenders now and could use a top starting pitcher. They can&#8217;t worry about whether some kids they trade to KC might actually improve the Royals. They just have to be concerned about whether trading those players away weakens themselves, now and/or in the future, more than adding Greinke improves them. Likewise, if the Royals can get the kind of talent they think they need to be able to contend in the division sooner by trading an expensive pitcher they can&#8217;t afford right now to a division rival, they&#8217;d do it.</p>
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		<title>By: jamar1700</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2566</link>
		<dc:creator>jamar1700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eh.  I think we are all saying essentially the same thing.  Knowing the way the Twins do business, it probably isn&#039;t going to happen.  Not that way.   Plus, from everything I&#039;ve read,  I don&#039;t get the impression that &quot;top tier players&quot; means &quot;prospects&quot; I think they want veterans, and not the &quot;iffy&quot; ones ... ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkyoudo ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh.  I think we are all saying essentially the same thing.  Knowing the way the Twins do business, it probably isn&#8217;t going to happen.  Not that way.   Plus, from everything I&#8217;ve read,  I don&#8217;t get the impression that &#8220;top tier players&#8221; means &#8220;prospects&#8221; I think they want veterans, and not the &#8220;iffy&#8221; ones &#8230; ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkyoudo <img src='http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2564</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So the Twins shouldn&#039;t oblige the Royals and give multiple top prospects / young players to a team within the division, huh?  Yet the Royals SHOULD oblige the Twins and give their top tier Cy Young Award winner to a team within the divison for something less?

Somehow I think the Royals have something to say about the whole matter.

BTW, the Royals aren&#039;t &quot;anxious&quot; to rid themselves of Greinke&#039;s contract. ..after all, Jose Guillen and his $12 milion per year are now off the books.)  Not to mention Kyle Farnsworth and his $4.5 million.  And David DeJesus and his $6 million.  And Rick Ankiel and his $2.75 million.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the Twins shouldn&#8217;t oblige the Royals and give multiple top prospects / young players to a team within the division, huh?  Yet the Royals SHOULD oblige the Twins and give their top tier Cy Young Award winner to a team within the divison for something less?</p>
<p>Somehow I think the Royals have something to say about the whole matter.</p>
<p>BTW, the Royals aren&#8217;t &#8220;anxious&#8221; to rid themselves of Greinke&#8217;s contract. ..after all, Jose Guillen and his $12 milion per year are now off the books.)  Not to mention Kyle Farnsworth and his $4.5 million.  And David DeJesus and his $6 million.  And Rick Ankiel and his $2.75 million.</p>
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		<title>By: jamar1700</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2560</link>
		<dc:creator>jamar1700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay maybe it WAS the whole &quot;nice guys&quot; discussion  :) Anywho, it&#039;s okay, I am, just not anymore than anyone else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay maybe it WAS the whole &#8220;nice guys&#8221; discussion  <img src='http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Anywho, it&#8217;s okay, I am, just not anymore than anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Crikket</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Crikket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hmmmm... I didn&#039;t think I&#039;d said anything you proposed was &quot;unrealistic&quot;, jamar, but my memory isn&#039;t what it used to be so I went back and checked.

When you opined about Pavano and the Twins being a good fit, my response was:

&quot;I think they’ll offer Pavano arbitration, but I doubt he’ll take it. The Twins can afford to pay him what he’ll demand, but I think he’ll command 2-3 guaranteed years and if they’re going to pay someone over 10 mil for a couple of years, I’d rather it be someone younger (Greinke, de la Rosa). If Pavano is kept, it means there is no change in the rotation this year… and I think it needs improvement.&quot;

I think I still stand by that. I think they&#039;ll offer arbitration. I think he&#039;ll turn it down. I believe the Twins can afford to pay him what he wants, but the number of years would be an issue. I&#039;d still rather pay Greinke or de la Rosa $10 mil+ a year for multiple years than Pavano and I still think the rotation needs improvement.

But like I said in the post above, if you can&#039;t GET that improvement, maybe you&#039;d better try harder to keep what you have.

Yanno, now that I think about it though, I MAY HAVE written that something you suggested was unrealistic... that whole sports-star-beanie-baby idea still sounds pretty iffy to me! :)

Oh... and I agree that as long as KC is demanding other teams be absolutely stupid about giving up multiple top tier players for Greinke, there&#039;s no way the Twins should oblige and be that stupid, especially to another team in their division (even if it is the Royals).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmmm&#8230; I didn&#8217;t think I&#8217;d said anything you proposed was &#8220;unrealistic&#8221;, jamar, but my memory isn&#8217;t what it used to be so I went back and checked.</p>
<p>When you opined about Pavano and the Twins being a good fit, my response was:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think they’ll offer Pavano arbitration, but I doubt he’ll take it. The Twins can afford to pay him what he’ll demand, but I think he’ll command 2-3 guaranteed years and if they’re going to pay someone over 10 mil for a couple of years, I’d rather it be someone younger (Greinke, de la Rosa). If Pavano is kept, it means there is no change in the rotation this year… and I think it needs improvement.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think I still stand by that. I think they&#8217;ll offer arbitration. I think he&#8217;ll turn it down. I believe the Twins can afford to pay him what he wants, but the number of years would be an issue. I&#8217;d still rather pay Greinke or de la Rosa $10 mil+ a year for multiple years than Pavano and I still think the rotation needs improvement.</p>
<p>But like I said in the post above, if you can&#8217;t GET that improvement, maybe you&#8217;d better try harder to keep what you have.</p>
<p>Yanno, now that I think about it though, I MAY HAVE written that something you suggested was unrealistic&#8230; that whole sports-star-beanie-baby idea still sounds pretty iffy to me! <img src='http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Oh&#8230; and I agree that as long as KC is demanding other teams be absolutely stupid about giving up multiple top tier players for Greinke, there&#8217;s no way the Twins should oblige and be that stupid, especially to another team in their division (even if it is the Royals).</p>
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		<title>By: jamar1700</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2010/11/11/to-stache-or-not-to-stache-the-carl-pavano-issue/#comment-2558</link>
		<dc:creator>jamar1700</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 22:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=4760#comment-2558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I noticed.  :)   I think it&#039;s a good idea because it appears to have been a good fit for both.  When I said that a couple blogs ago I believe you said it was &quot;unrealistic&quot;.  ;)  

FWIW I certainly don&#039;t see the Twin&#039;s giving &quot;several frontline players&quot; up to a team in the Central.  If, and that&#039;s a big if in my book, there is a play for Greinke from the Twin&#039;s it would have to involve a third team.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I noticed.  <img src='http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    I think it&#8217;s a good idea because it appears to have been a good fit for both.  When I said that a couple blogs ago I believe you said it was &#8220;unrealistic&#8221;.  <img src='http://knuckleballsblog.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   </p>
<p>FWIW I certainly don&#8217;t see the Twin&#8217;s giving &#8220;several frontline players&#8221; up to a team in the Central.  If, and that&#8217;s a big if in my book, there is a play for Greinke from the Twin&#8217;s it would have to involve a third team.</p>
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