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	<title>Comments on: Is Winning No Longer the &#8220;Twins Way&#8221;?</title>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9189</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 01:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed Jim.  This team has so many holes in it from top to bottom that the only cure is 5-6 years of drafting star players.  I hate to say it but Morneau is done as a produtive player.  Mauer never makes a &quot;move&quot; without a ton of thought as to how it will affect his chances of entering the HOF.   Mauer is done as a productive player.  The starting pitching is  suspect.  The bull pen is nonexistant.  The defense stinks.  The outfield will be mediocre at best without Cuddy.  Kubel is  gone.  Yet the Twin&#039;s front office KNOW they will sell 2.9 million tickets next year.  Beer will be $8.00 and hotdogs will be $5.00.  It&#039;s kinda like shooting fish in a barrel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed Jim.  This team has so many holes in it from top to bottom that the only cure is 5-6 years of drafting star players.  I hate to say it but Morneau is done as a produtive player.  Mauer never makes a &#8220;move&#8221; without a ton of thought as to how it will affect his chances of entering the HOF.   Mauer is done as a productive player.  The starting pitching is  suspect.  The bull pen is nonexistant.  The defense stinks.  The outfield will be mediocre at best without Cuddy.  Kubel is  gone.  Yet the Twin&#8217;s front office KNOW they will sell 2.9 million tickets next year.  Beer will be $8.00 and hotdogs will be $5.00.  It&#8217;s kinda like shooting fish in a barrel.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Crikket</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Crikket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I mentioned in the post, we understand the primary purpose of the minor leagues is to develop players for the big club. 

But there&#039;s a difference between winning taking a back seat to player development by the Twins front office and winning taking a back seat to stat accumulation by the minor league players. Plouffe&#039;s comments were honest, I give him that. I simply don&#039;t believe you can not give a damn about winning for several years and then suddenly play like a winner when you reach the Bigs. 

Successful organizations, whether in sports or other businesses, have certain characteristics in common... things that they emphasize in attracting, developing and retaining talent... things that come to form part of their institutional DNA. Things that make their organizations and their people &quot;winners.&quot;

I don&#039;t see those characteristics in the Twins organization any more and I sincerely believe part of the problem is that the mentality Plouffe expressed is what is taught in the minor leagues. 

Can&#039;t make the exceptional play on defense? Can&#039;t get a bunt down? Can&#039;t move a runner over? Can&#039;t get a jump to steal a base? Can&#039;t read balls as they come off the bat well enough to know when you can get from 1B to 3B on a single? Don&#039;t study opposing pitchers/hitters? Can&#039;t WIN?

That&#039;s fine... don&#039;t worry about it as long as your batting average or ERA are better than the next guy&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I mentioned in the post, we understand the primary purpose of the minor leagues is to develop players for the big club. </p>
<p>But there&#8217;s a difference between winning taking a back seat to player development by the Twins front office and winning taking a back seat to stat accumulation by the minor league players. Plouffe&#8217;s comments were honest, I give him that. I simply don&#8217;t believe you can not give a damn about winning for several years and then suddenly play like a winner when you reach the Bigs. </p>
<p>Successful organizations, whether in sports or other businesses, have certain characteristics in common&#8230; things that they emphasize in attracting, developing and retaining talent&#8230; things that come to form part of their institutional DNA. Things that make their organizations and their people &#8220;winners.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see those characteristics in the Twins organization any more and I sincerely believe part of the problem is that the mentality Plouffe expressed is what is taught in the minor leagues. </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t make the exceptional play on defense? Can&#8217;t get a bunt down? Can&#8217;t move a runner over? Can&#8217;t get a jump to steal a base? Can&#8217;t read balls as they come off the bat well enough to know when you can get from 1B to 3B on a single? Don&#8217;t study opposing pitchers/hitters? Can&#8217;t WIN?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine&#8230; don&#8217;t worry about it as long as your batting average or ERA are better than the next guy&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: JB_Iowa</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9180</link>
		<dc:creator>JB_Iowa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:  Seth&#039;s comment

The problem is the nuance in Plouffe&#039;s statement.  He didn&#039;t say he wanted to be  &lt;i&gt;prepared for the big leagues&lt;/i&gt;.   He said he wanted to perform in such a way that he would be &lt;i&gt;called up to the big leagues&lt;/i&gt;.

I&#039;m not sure that is the same thing.

But either way, your comment ignores the issue of &quot;fostering a winning mindset&quot; -- something I took away from JC&#039;s post.

This strikes me this morning as I read the tweets, etc. about Delmon Young last night and as I think about last season (and why I thought he was MVP in 2010).  Delmon has a lot of faults but he seems to have that &quot;something extra&quot; that causes him to perform better later in the year as the stakes get higher and in clutch situations during a game.   This quote from DY last night was telling:  &lt;i&gt;&quot;We needed desperately to get a run, because playing a tie ballgame with the Yankees late in the game is never fun. There&#039;s always some type of spark and magic that they have late in ballgames. If they get a lead, they have [Mariano] Rivera coming in, so we&#039;re desperate to try to get some runs across the board late.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;   It is a &quot;sense of the moment&quot; that cannot be quantified by statistics.

That &quot;sense of the moment&quot; is also what I see lacking in Joe Mauer.  When healthy, he is consistently good -- no question about that -- but I don&#039;t see that ability (or desire) to really step it up in the clutch.  Rather than relishing being up in big situations, it seems like he would prefer to be elsewhere (I know that is somewhat unfair and is based only on observation).   I think Morneau has a bigger sense of the moment but it is becoming a dim memory because it has been so long since he played late in the season or in high pressure games.

I think that much of this is a reflection of Gardenhire&#039;s even keel philosophy.  Keep the boat steady, keep performing competently, there is always tomorrow (or in Plouffe&#039;s case, there are always the big leagues).  And for the most part, it has worked in the regular season.  But when the Twins have gotten to the post-season when there ISN&#039;T always another game, it always seems like the missed that extra sense of urgency (I know, they played better teams with better pitching but there still should have been a way to steal a game here or there).

For some time, several commentors on the Strib have talked about wanting players and a team that &quot;refuses to lose&quot;.  Seems to me that mindset needs to be instilled early on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Seth&#8217;s comment</p>
<p>The problem is the nuance in Plouffe&#8217;s statement.  He didn&#8217;t say he wanted to be  <i>prepared for the big leagues</i>.   He said he wanted to perform in such a way that he would be <i>called up to the big leagues</i>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that is the same thing.</p>
<p>But either way, your comment ignores the issue of &#8220;fostering a winning mindset&#8221; &#8212; something I took away from JC&#8217;s post.</p>
<p>This strikes me this morning as I read the tweets, etc. about Delmon Young last night and as I think about last season (and why I thought he was MVP in 2010).  Delmon has a lot of faults but he seems to have that &#8220;something extra&#8221; that causes him to perform better later in the year as the stakes get higher and in clutch situations during a game.   This quote from DY last night was telling:  <i>&#8220;We needed desperately to get a run, because playing a tie ballgame with the Yankees late in the game is never fun. There&#8217;s always some type of spark and magic that they have late in ballgames. If they get a lead, they have [Mariano] Rivera coming in, so we&#8217;re desperate to try to get some runs across the board late.&#8221;</i>   It is a &#8220;sense of the moment&#8221; that cannot be quantified by statistics.</p>
<p>That &#8220;sense of the moment&#8221; is also what I see lacking in Joe Mauer.  When healthy, he is consistently good &#8212; no question about that &#8212; but I don&#8217;t see that ability (or desire) to really step it up in the clutch.  Rather than relishing being up in big situations, it seems like he would prefer to be elsewhere (I know that is somewhat unfair and is based only on observation).   I think Morneau has a bigger sense of the moment but it is becoming a dim memory because it has been so long since he played late in the season or in high pressure games.</p>
<p>I think that much of this is a reflection of Gardenhire&#8217;s even keel philosophy.  Keep the boat steady, keep performing competently, there is always tomorrow (or in Plouffe&#8217;s case, there are always the big leagues).  And for the most part, it has worked in the regular season.  But when the Twins have gotten to the post-season when there ISN&#8217;T always another game, it always seems like the missed that extra sense of urgency (I know, they played better teams with better pitching but there still should have been a way to steal a game here or there).</p>
<p>For some time, several commentors on the Strib have talked about wanting players and a team that &#8220;refuses to lose&#8221;.  Seems to me that mindset needs to be instilled early on.</p>
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		<title>By: JB_Iowa</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9179</link>
		<dc:creator>JB_Iowa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s all Nieto and Rayfords&#039; fault -- isn&#039;t that the company line?  Yeah, right. 

No real problem with the departures of Nieto and Rayford but virtually every statement that comes out of the Twins organization or the players shows me that this is a franchise that has lost its &quot;baseball sense&quot;.

I thought the Rosenthal article on FoxSports about the contrast between the Braves and the Red Sox was an interesting one.  While the Red Sox (correctly) are portrayed as reactionary, the Braves are portrayed as stable.  BUT the Braves were still going to change their hitting coach -- regardless of the September collapse.

Compared to the Braves, the Twins are moribund.  I guess we&#039;ll see after Gardenhire and Smith &quot;meet&quot; whether there are any changes in staff in the front office or major league coaching staffs.  

They really need someone from outside the organization to shake up their complacency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all Nieto and Rayfords&#8217; fault &#8212; isn&#8217;t that the company line?  Yeah, right. </p>
<p>No real problem with the departures of Nieto and Rayford but virtually every statement that comes out of the Twins organization or the players shows me that this is a franchise that has lost its &#8220;baseball sense&#8221;.</p>
<p>I thought the Rosenthal article on FoxSports about the contrast between the Braves and the Red Sox was an interesting one.  While the Red Sox (correctly) are portrayed as reactionary, the Braves are portrayed as stable.  BUT the Braves were still going to change their hitting coach &#8212; regardless of the September collapse.</p>
<p>Compared to the Braves, the Twins are moribund.  I guess we&#8217;ll see after Gardenhire and Smith &#8220;meet&#8221; whether there are any changes in staff in the front office or major league coaching staffs.  </p>
<p>They really need someone from outside the organization to shake up their complacency.</p>
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		<title>By: SethSpeaks</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9178</link>
		<dc:creator>SethSpeaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess I completely agree with Plouffe&#039;s quotes. The goal in the minor leagues is (SHOULD BE) to make players ready for the big leagues. Winning is secondary. Now, of course, there is no reason not to try to win in the minor leagues. But it is secondary to the big picture. Plouffe&#039;s was an honest comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I completely agree with Plouffe&#8217;s quotes. The goal in the minor leagues is (SHOULD BE) to make players ready for the big leagues. Winning is secondary. Now, of course, there is no reason not to try to win in the minor leagues. But it is secondary to the big picture. Plouffe&#8217;s was an honest comment.</p>
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		<title>By: CapitalBabs</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9177</link>
		<dc:creator>CapitalBabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[even without the quote, I think Twins fans were already realizing that there is just something not quite right with the guys we have coming up and it&#039;s part of why the injuries hit us SOOO hard. You can recover a bit better if your minor league guys are a bit more ready to perform when they get here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>even without the quote, I think Twins fans were already realizing that there is just something not quite right with the guys we have coming up and it&#8217;s part of why the injuries hit us SOOO hard. You can recover a bit better if your minor league guys are a bit more ready to perform when they get here.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/10/03/is-winning-no-longer-the-twins-way/#comment-9146</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 01:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9125#comment-9146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Winning baseball games is no longer a goal for the Twins organization, players, or management.  With Target Field it is all about selling tickets, jerseys, food, and beer.  It is now just a money game, really no different than a Target department store.  Only now it is selling jerseys, food, and beer.  &quot;Baseball&quot;  is far, far, down on the list.  Winning baseball games is not in their vocabulary.  Twins baseball will never be the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Winning baseball games is no longer a goal for the Twins organization, players, or management.  With Target Field it is all about selling tickets, jerseys, food, and beer.  It is now just a money game, really no different than a Target department store.  Only now it is selling jerseys, food, and beer.  &#8220;Baseball&#8221;  is far, far, down on the list.  Winning baseball games is not in their vocabulary.  Twins baseball will never be the same.</p>
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