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	<title>Comments on: Two Weeks May Determine Twins&#8217; 2012 Fate</title>
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		<title>By: Bullpen Target: Brad Lidge? &#171; SethSpeaks.net</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10482</link>
		<dc:creator>Bullpen Target: Brad Lidge? &#171; SethSpeaks.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Knuckleballs writes that the next two weeks may determine the Twins fate. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Knuckleballs writes that the next two weeks may determine the Twins fate. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10473</link>
		<dc:creator>TT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim -

It looks like the chart is pro-rating whatever bonus was paid. I don&#039;t think Casilla is going to get $2.5 million. You don&#039;t triple your salary by playing less than 100 games on a team that lost 99 games.  Especially when you didn&#039;t play all that well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim -</p>
<p>It looks like the chart is pro-rating whatever bonus was paid. I don&#8217;t think Casilla is going to get $2.5 million. You don&#8217;t triple your salary by playing less than 100 games on a team that lost 99 games.  Especially when you didn&#8217;t play all that well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Crikket</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10461</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Crikket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I used this chart from Cot&#039;s for contractual obligations. It has Morneau at $15 mil. https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tIn6UNnQQrmryUesyK0wSwg&amp;output=html

I used 500K for Valencia and $2.5 mil for Casilla (the number the TwinsCentric crew projected)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used this chart from Cot&#8217;s for contractual obligations. It has Morneau at $15 mil. <a href="https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tIn6UNnQQrmryUesyK0wSwg&#038;output=html" rel="nofollow">https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tIn6UNnQQrmryUesyK0wSwg&#038;output=html</a></p>
<p>I used 500K for Valencia and $2.5 mil for Casilla (the number the TwinsCentric crew projected)</p>
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		<title>By: thrylos98</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10454</link>
		<dc:creator>thrylos98</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure how this is going to copy and paste here, but this is my spreadsheet about 2012 commitments:

Player	2012 contract	
Mauer	23000000	
Morneau	14000000	
Nathan	2000000	buyout
Pavano	8500000	
Baker	6500000	
Liriano	5500000	estimated
Blackburn	4750000	
Nishioka	3000000	
Slowey	3500000	estimated
Span	3000000	
Casilla	1250000	estimated
Perkins	1500000	estimated
Duensing	1000000	estimated
Mijares	800000	estimated
Valencia	450000	
Butera	450000
Hughes	450000
Swarzak	450000
Revere	450000
Plouffe	450000
Doumit	3000000
Carroll	2750000

Total	86750000


(and I did not have Carroll in the previous estimation)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how this is going to copy and paste here, but this is my spreadsheet about 2012 commitments:</p>
<p>Player	2012 contract<br />
Mauer	23000000<br />
Morneau	14000000<br />
Nathan	2000000	buyout<br />
Pavano	8500000<br />
Baker	6500000<br />
Liriano	5500000	estimated<br />
Blackburn	4750000<br />
Nishioka	3000000<br />
Slowey	3500000	estimated<br />
Span	3000000<br />
Casilla	1250000	estimated<br />
Perkins	1500000	estimated<br />
Duensing	1000000	estimated<br />
Mijares	800000	estimated<br />
Valencia	450000<br />
Butera	450000<br />
Hughes	450000<br />
Swarzak	450000<br />
Revere	450000<br />
Plouffe	450000<br />
Doumit	3000000<br />
Carroll	2750000</p>
<p>Total	86750000</p>
<p>(and I did not have Carroll in the previous estimation)</p>
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		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10453</link>
		<dc:creator>TT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 00:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Mauer, Morneau, Casilla, Valencia, Carroll, Span, Nishioka and Doumit will collectively pull in just over $53 million&quot;

How did you get there?
Mauer 23
Morneau 14
Doumit 3
Nishioka 3
Span 3
Carroll 2.75
Casilla ?
Valencia ?

Do you really think Valencia  and Casilla are going to cost over $4 million? I don&#039;t. 

Valencia is going to get about  $.5 million. I don&#039;t think an arbitrator is going to give Casilla $3.5 million and make him the team&#039;s third highest paid position player. He got less than $1 million in his first year of arbitration and I am not sure he raised his value at all last year given the Twins&#039; record.

Your guess on the pitching seems high too. It will depend on how much Liriano, Perkins, Mijares and Slowey get in arbitration, assuming its offered.  Again, with  the Twins poor record, it seems unlikely they are going to get big raises.  You seem to have them getting almost $14 million.  That&#039;s $3.5 million a piece.  I think Liriano is the only one who will reach that level.

More to the point, that $100 million figure was an off-the-cuff comment by Terry Ryan at his introductory news conference, not a firm number.  Even within that number,  it looks to me like the Twins have plenty of money for a closer and right fielder. 

The budget may be a real constraint on adding a starter and proven arms for the bullpen. But I don&#039;t think that is going to be the biggest issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mauer, Morneau, Casilla, Valencia, Carroll, Span, Nishioka and Doumit will collectively pull in just over $53 million&#8221;</p>
<p>How did you get there?<br />
Mauer 23<br />
Morneau 14<br />
Doumit 3<br />
Nishioka 3<br />
Span 3<br />
Carroll 2.75<br />
Casilla ?<br />
Valencia ?</p>
<p>Do you really think Valencia  and Casilla are going to cost over $4 million? I don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Valencia is going to get about  $.5 million. I don&#8217;t think an arbitrator is going to give Casilla $3.5 million and make him the team&#8217;s third highest paid position player. He got less than $1 million in his first year of arbitration and I am not sure he raised his value at all last year given the Twins&#8217; record.</p>
<p>Your guess on the pitching seems high too. It will depend on how much Liriano, Perkins, Mijares and Slowey get in arbitration, assuming its offered.  Again, with  the Twins poor record, it seems unlikely they are going to get big raises.  You seem to have them getting almost $14 million.  That&#8217;s $3.5 million a piece.  I think Liriano is the only one who will reach that level.</p>
<p>More to the point, that $100 million figure was an off-the-cuff comment by Terry Ryan at his introductory news conference, not a firm number.  Even within that number,  it looks to me like the Twins have plenty of money for a closer and right fielder. </p>
<p>The budget may be a real constraint on adding a starter and proven arms for the bullpen. But I don&#8217;t think that is going to be the biggest issue.</p>
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		<title>By: thrylos98</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10451</link>
		<dc:creator>thrylos98</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If you project Ryan spending even $4 million on a closer and even if you hand Revere a roster spot for minimum wage, that leaves very little to spend on the remaining players. Sounds like a lot of Red Wings and Rock Cats (including Hughes and Plouffe) wearing Twins uniforms, to me… and pretty much the same group of starting pitchers that filled the rotation a year ago.&quot;

I think that there is no way that Ryan gives up on Plouffe.  Very similar situation with Cuddyer (1st round pick, sucked on the IF) who got a chance in same situation.  I think that Plouffe will figure in the OF/DH situation in 2012.

As far as the rotation goes (and the spending limits) the team has about $13.5 M &quot;invested&quot; on Pavano and Blackburn.  If they find takers for those 2, a lot will change.  Despite that, the rotation will probably be Baker, Liriano, Slowey (in alphabetical order - btw did you hear any of the anti-Slowey propaganda of the Twins after BS left?) and then maybe a new person or Pavano (hope not) and Swarzak/Hendricks/De Vries (if still around).  Different rotation and the key is to have them all healthy and for Gardy to not cut his nose to spite his face (see: Slowey)

A quick calculation with the current commitments for 2012 has the payroll at $84M (incl. Doumit and expected arbitration payouts for all per MLB trade rumors.)  That&#039;s $16M.  Plenty to sign someone like Broxton to an incentive ladden contract, to sign Andrew Jones to add to the OF/DH pool and get a couple real relievers.    Frankly I see trades happening though...

I am pretty optimistic for 2012 (or as optimistic as I can be with Gardenhire and his buddies still around...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you project Ryan spending even $4 million on a closer and even if you hand Revere a roster spot for minimum wage, that leaves very little to spend on the remaining players. Sounds like a lot of Red Wings and Rock Cats (including Hughes and Plouffe) wearing Twins uniforms, to me… and pretty much the same group of starting pitchers that filled the rotation a year ago.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that there is no way that Ryan gives up on Plouffe.  Very similar situation with Cuddyer (1st round pick, sucked on the IF) who got a chance in same situation.  I think that Plouffe will figure in the OF/DH situation in 2012.</p>
<p>As far as the rotation goes (and the spending limits) the team has about $13.5 M &#8220;invested&#8221; on Pavano and Blackburn.  If they find takers for those 2, a lot will change.  Despite that, the rotation will probably be Baker, Liriano, Slowey (in alphabetical order &#8211; btw did you hear any of the anti-Slowey propaganda of the Twins after BS left?) and then maybe a new person or Pavano (hope not) and Swarzak/Hendricks/De Vries (if still around).  Different rotation and the key is to have them all healthy and for Gardy to not cut his nose to spite his face (see: Slowey)</p>
<p>A quick calculation with the current commitments for 2012 has the payroll at $84M (incl. Doumit and expected arbitration payouts for all per MLB trade rumors.)  That&#8217;s $16M.  Plenty to sign someone like Broxton to an incentive ladden contract, to sign Andrew Jones to add to the OF/DH pool and get a couple real relievers.    Frankly I see trades happening though&#8230;</p>
<p>I am pretty optimistic for 2012 (or as optimistic as I can be with Gardenhire and his buddies still around&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Crikket</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10449</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Crikket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could Nishioka and Mijares open the year in the minors? Sure. But their pay is still going to count against that $100 million cap that Ryan is working with. So just having an extra open roster spot doesn&#039;t free up any more money to spend... it just means he has to spread the remaining payroll even thinner.

I&#039;m also not too concerned about the 40-man roster spots since the Twins have demonstrated that they&#039;re more than willing to risk sending players through waivers, if necessary, to make room for acquisitions. Doesn&#039;t make some people happy when they do that, but they do it anyway.

As for Revere, Ryan&#039;s comments earlier this month that he&#039;s not planning to trade either Span or Revere certainly indicate he&#039;d like to put them in the same OF and I agree that should help the pitchers&#039; ERAs. Despite that, I don&#039;t believe Revere&#039;s offensive numbers warrant an assumption that he should be on the Opening Day roster as long as Span is still around. With Span hitting lead off, Carroll 2nd and Casilla 9th, Revere&#039;s unproven bat (and questionable on-base skills) doesn&#039;t have a clear spot in the batting order. Again, I&#039;m not saying it would be a terrible thing, just that I&#039;m not all that certain it will happen.

If you project Ryan spending even $4 million on a closer and even if you hand Revere a roster spot for minimum wage, that leaves very little to spend on the remaining players. Sounds like a lot of Red Wings and Rock Cats (including Hughes and Plouffe) wearing Twins uniforms, to me... and pretty much the same group of starting pitchers that filled the rotation a year ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could Nishioka and Mijares open the year in the minors? Sure. But their pay is still going to count against that $100 million cap that Ryan is working with. So just having an extra open roster spot doesn&#8217;t free up any more money to spend&#8230; it just means he has to spread the remaining payroll even thinner.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not too concerned about the 40-man roster spots since the Twins have demonstrated that they&#8217;re more than willing to risk sending players through waivers, if necessary, to make room for acquisitions. Doesn&#8217;t make some people happy when they do that, but they do it anyway.</p>
<p>As for Revere, Ryan&#8217;s comments earlier this month that he&#8217;s not planning to trade either Span or Revere certainly indicate he&#8217;d like to put them in the same OF and I agree that should help the pitchers&#8217; ERAs. Despite that, I don&#8217;t believe Revere&#8217;s offensive numbers warrant an assumption that he should be on the Opening Day roster as long as Span is still around. With Span hitting lead off, Carroll 2nd and Casilla 9th, Revere&#8217;s unproven bat (and questionable on-base skills) doesn&#8217;t have a clear spot in the batting order. Again, I&#8217;m not saying it would be a terrible thing, just that I&#8217;m not all that certain it will happen.</p>
<p>If you project Ryan spending even $4 million on a closer and even if you hand Revere a roster spot for minimum wage, that leaves very little to spend on the remaining players. Sounds like a lot of Red Wings and Rock Cats (including Hughes and Plouffe) wearing Twins uniforms, to me&#8230; and pretty much the same group of starting pitchers that filled the rotation a year ago.</p>
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		<title>By: thrylos98</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10448</link>
		<dc:creator>thrylos98</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another thing on this: &quot;I count four open pitching spots and five open position spots to fill…&quot;  The magic number is actually 2, as the number of openings in the Twins 40-man roster.   So, unless there are trades, waivers, etc, only 2 players can come outside the organization.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing on this: &#8220;I count four open pitching spots and five open position spots to fill…&#8221;  The magic number is actually 2, as the number of openings in the Twins 40-man roster.   So, unless there are trades, waivers, etc, only 2 players can come outside the organization.</p>
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		<title>By: thrylos98</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10447</link>
		<dc:creator>thrylos98</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Revere will be on the roster, so will Luke Hughes and Plouffe because they are out of options.   Mijares still has another option left, so I would not write his name in stone quite yet.  Same as Nishioka&#039;s (and with TR as the GM, it is ok to admit BS&#039;s mistake and have him in AAA for seasoning...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revere will be on the roster, so will Luke Hughes and Plouffe because they are out of options.   Mijares still has another option left, so I would not write his name in stone quite yet.  Same as Nishioka&#8217;s (and with TR as the GM, it is ok to admit BS&#8217;s mistake and have him in AAA for seasoning&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://knuckleballsblog.com/2011/11/28/two-weeks-may-determine-twins-2012-fate/#comment-10444</link>
		<dc:creator>TT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knuckleballsblog.com/?p=9646#comment-10444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think the Twins really have nine spots &quot;completely up in the air&quot;.  Does anyone really think Ben Revere isn&#039;t going to be on the roster? The only two positions the Twins are almost certain to fill from outside the organization are right field and closer. They have multiple candidates for all the other roster spots.

They may add a starting pitcher and some additional options for the bullpen.  And a couple of those may still be works in progress after the new year.  In fact, the bullpen will likely still be a work in progress come the July trading deadline.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the Twins really have nine spots &#8220;completely up in the air&#8221;.  Does anyone really think Ben Revere isn&#8217;t going to be on the roster? The only two positions the Twins are almost certain to fill from outside the organization are right field and closer. They have multiple candidates for all the other roster spots.</p>
<p>They may add a starting pitcher and some additional options for the bullpen.  And a couple of those may still be works in progress after the new year.  In fact, the bullpen will likely still be a work in progress come the July trading deadline.</p>
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